Q&A MISC. Bread Questions
Until we can figure out a more sophisticated way to handle your feedback, your praise and your questions, we hope the following series of Q&A posts will help. Our goal is to get a conversation going about a particular topic in one location. Hoping that it will be easier for you to follow and get the information you need to bake gorgeous bread.
If we haven’t started a thread on the subject you are interested in then leave it here and we can create another post!
Thank you so much for all of the conversation. We enjoy it immensely and are learning so much from you all!
Zoë and Jeff
Jeff, thank you so much for your replies.
I think the main problem was simply not enough flour. A helpful person on Gardenweb suggested weighing the flour. I know you don’t recommend doing this, but I learned that my 5.5 cups of flour weighed about 27.5 ounces instead of 32.5 ounces, a big difference.
I think this was due to two reasons:
I like to run a wire whisk through the flour just before measuring. Apparently this was introducing a lot of air.
Also, thanks to your clarifying remark about “scoop and sweep” I think I was doing that wrong to, ie filling the cup with flour from the whisk.
I have started a new batch, it was much stiffer to stir, and I feel very confident that I am back in the bread making business.
Many thanks for your prompt reply!
Kind regards,
Elisabeth
Hi Elisabeth,
In our new book we do use some weights and have a chart so you can easily figure out how much to use. It sounds like your new batch is going to result is some great bread. keep us posted!
Thanks, Zoë
Hello!
I love your book! But I have a question regarding crumb structure (air bubbles in a finished loaf). In the Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day book I have made the light wheat dough and the olive oil dough. For both I’ve added olives, since I have to roll out the dough to add the olives, it seems that the crumb is slightly dense (few or tight bubbles). Are there pictures of what finished crumb structures should look like with these (and all) doughs? By rolling it out with a rolling pin am I over working it? The breads flavor is awesome, I am just wondering if the crumb should have larger “bubbles?”
Thanks!!
Ned: Rolling in stuff after the fact this way works, but it does lead to a denser crumb and less open structure. One thing I think you’ll appreciate is increasing the rest time if you’ve rolled stuff in. Are you doing an 80 to 90 minute rest after forming this kind of loaf? Jeff
I treated myself to a Le Creuset grill pan and panini press. I’m wondering if there’s a particular recipe that works well for panini? I own Artisan Bread and have the Healthy Bread on my Christmas list. Thanks!
Joni: Traditionally light white breads are used in panini presses but I can’t see why you couldn’t use something with heartier grains. I just make grilled cheese in a cast-iron pan without the pressing aspect. I always use whole grains for that and I’m guessing it would work fine in a press. Jeff
What is the maximum temperature that the dough can be kept at? I would like to find a yeast culture or bread dough that can be stored at room temperature.
William: I’ve tried room temp and the dough gets soupy really fast and is hard to handle even early on in the batch life, which is no more than two days at room temp. I wasn’t crazy about it. A cool basement is another story, and I didn’t experiment with that. Might be more manageable if you dried out our recipes a bit, like decreasing the water by a quarter cup or so. Don’t try this at all if the recipe has eggs or dairy. Jeff
Has anyone found a good glass substitute for the plastic tub used to mix the dough? I don’t like using polycarbonates if I can avoid them.
Hi Chris,
I have large glass containers that I store my flour in that I’ve often thought would work for storing the dough. I got them at target and they have a glass lid. You can also use a ceramic bowl, but they are harder to fit into the refrigerator.
I bet other people will have suggestions too!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the info, no I have been doing about a 60 minute rest. I’ll try 80-90 minutes.
One more question, is there a way to keep the ingredients (olives) in the middle of the loaf and evenly dispersed? On my finished loafs all the olives seem to “float” to the top.
Thanks again!
Ned
Ned: Depends on how you get olives into the loaf— if you mix it in with the water, there’s tends to be a non-uniformity. If you roll it into the dough after it’s been mixed, that tends to be better-distributed. Hope that helps? Jeff
Help! My Apple-Barley Bread won’t rise. I’ve tried it twice, the second time making sure all ingredients were at room temp and the cider at 100 degrees. The dough was in a warm place for initial rise. I gave it three hours instead of two. No look or feel of yeast activity. End product was flavorful but VERY dense. FYI: I’ve made 20 some breads from your first book and love the master recipe in “Healthy Foods.”
Hi Jeff,
You guys are amazing with the responses, I almost feel as if I am bugging you. With how I am getting the olives into the loaf, I am rolling out the dough to 1/2 inch on the counter and laying the olives on that surface. Then I roll the dough to seal the olives inside and shape into a ball. I’ve also folded into thirds to see if that works, but still the olives “float” to the surface. It really just an aesthetic thing, as it tastes wonderful, just trying to get olives into more bites. I have no problem to keep trying though as it is fun to make!
Thanks again,
Ned
Hi Ned,
The trick to getting the olives to be dispersed is to make sure when spreading over the dough that you get them all the way to the edges. That way when you tuck the ends under the loaf after rolling it up there isn’t a bunch of dough that is olive free tucked up under it.
Hope that helps! Zoë
Zoe and Jeff –
Can’t thank you enough – made your gluten free crusty boule yesterday, and it was the first good bread I’ve had since I was diagnosed with celiac disease one year ago. Very excited to have good bread in my life again!
Bob
Hi Bob,
I am so very pleased to hear that! It is one of the breads in the book that I am so excited about because of that. Thank you for trying the bread and I’m beyond thrilled that you enjoyed it!
Cheers, Zoë
hi:
i’m at a complete loss…i’m a fairly experienced bread baker, but can not get your bread to rise worth a darn. i have now tried four loaves, with 2 different brands of yeast, with the same result…dense bread that does not get the “oven spring” or rise you write about. the loaves are very very dense. i’m halving the recipe (since i travel a lot and didn’t want so much in the fridge until i’d mastered what i was doing) and am using gold brand unbleached all purpose flour. my yeast is brand new (bought yesterday!). helllllllppppp!!!! i’m using 1.5 cups of water and 3.25 of flour. it seems to do ok on the first rise but doesn’t rise at all once it’s been shaped, even in the oven. i’ve tried refrigerated overnight dough and letting it rest for over an hour, and also using “fresh” dough after about a 2.5 hour first rise.
please please help!
thanks,
jodi
Hi Jodi,
I’m assuming that you are making the master recipe from ABin5? Does it seem like your dough holds its shape when you form it gently into the shape of a boule? I am wondering if perhaps your dough is too wet to hold its shape? You can see what the dough is supposed to look like in one of our videos https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=63 (be sure to watch the ones for the ABin5 and not HBin5). If you suspect that the dough is too wet it may be the way that the flour is measured, we use a scoop and sweep method, which results in much more flour than spooning the flour into the measuring cup.
Let me know if the consistency of the dough looks like what you see in the video and we can take it from there.
Thanks! Zoë
ps–i’ve used an oven themometer to check my temp and by dense i mean “and doughy” not dry. it’s almost spongy.
Hi Jodi,
What you are describing can also be caused by dough that is too dry, so we will fix it once we determine the consistency of your dough. If it is too dry it will not have enough stretch and therefore will not rise properly.
Keep us posted! Zoë
zoe:
thanks for your quick response!!
yes, i meant the master recipe…i read enough to read the “don’t try anything else until you master this” part, and i clearly haven’t mastered this yet! 🙂 the dough holds the shape fine. i used the scoop and sweep method, and i watched the video and honestly, mine appears just like yours until about the point it goes in the oven (or, well, is in the oven.). (i was very thorough before i posted here!) the only glitch i can think of is my flour is not “new” but it has been kept in a sealed, airtight container and i’ve used it in other baking without a problem. i’ve never heard of flour going bad (it is the correct texture and there are no bugs of any type in it)
i’m just completely flummoxed by this and i really want it to work!
jodi
Hi Jodi,
Where are you proofing the dough, on the counter? Is your house particularly warm? I’m wondering if your dough is over proofing? If you are letting it rise for an hour+ in a very warm place it could be overproofed, which means the yeast would no longer have any rising power once it hits the oven.
I don’t think it is the flour, unless you taste a rancid flavor, but you said before that it tastes alright. You said gold brand, is that the same as gold metal brand?
I should have asked if you live at high altitude, it sounds a lot like issues people have when they are baking in the mountains.
We will keep trying until we figure this out. Thanks! Zoë
We bought the Artisan Bread book while in the States and the recipes worked perfectly. When we returned to Bangladesh, where we work, the dough put out to rise simply spreads out into a big round 1 inch high pancake type of form. Tastes fine but very strange looking. I have tried adding more flour to make a stiffer dough, but it continues to do the same thing. We are at sea level here and using local flour. I have no idea what the problem is. And ideas anyone?
Paul: The problem is low-protein flour, we encounter this with people all over the third world. Do you have any access to American-style unbleached all-purpose or bread flour? Or access to to vital wheat gluten? VWG is available on amazon, but that may not help where you are: https://www.amazon.com/Hodgson-Mill-Gluten-Vitamin-6-5-Ounce/dp/B000FDMLVS?&camp=212361&linkCode=wey&tag=arbrinfimiada-20&creative=380725
I was so thrilled to see HBin5 out there!!! I wasn’t aware of it. That’s great!!!!
I had a question about ABin5. I’d like to bake a whole batch of the boule recipe in smaller size loaves (5-6 loaves per batch). Is this possible and how? Please include directions for convection and non-convection ovens. Thanks so much!
Adina: No major changes, but anticipate about 15% shorter bake time. For convection, decrease oven temp by 25 degrees F, and in all cases, confirm accuracy of oven with oven thermometer. Jeff
Jeff & Zoe, I have been using your book for ages now and love it given several away as presents and generally have started a network of friends all baking bread! My darling husband thought he would do me a favor and buy some bulk AP flour – it appears the 50lb bucket he purchased was bleached white AP. As the bucket is now opened, I don’t want it to go to waste. I figured added gluten would help fix the issue. It is getting better results but not the same as unbleached. But I don’t know what ratio to add. Could you advise on the proportion of VWG to unbleached flour? Also I have discovered Bulk VWG in #10 tins which folks overseas could probally better access. Same product but cheaper than Amazon. (see url)
Kelly: VWG is the only way to fix the problem. Try about a quarter cup per batch and go from there– it’s an experiment.
If you’re already at 1/4-cup, increase to 3/8 cup and then 1/2-cup. Jeff
store.honeyvillegrain.com (for vital wheat gluten in #10 cans
sorry above I meant ratio of gluten to BLEACHED white flour
1/4-cup is for about 6 1/2 cups of white flour.
I notice that the protein content is the same for King Arthur’s All Purpose Flour and Bread Flour (13.3%). So what is the difference in the two? Should the same hydration rate (83%) be used for both?
Just received your new book. It looks like another winner.
Galanw: KAF AP is pretty much the same as Pillsbury bread flour. But I’m pretty sure you’re mistaken about KAF Bread– isn’t it about 14% protein? Does this post help? https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=140. We didn’t address KAF bread in there; it should take even more hydration. Jeff
I just purchased your book, Artisan bread in five minutes a day. I found the error page and made the corrections in my book.
Now my question, I mixed up the European Peasant Bread last night, let it rest and put in the fridge for storage. This morning I realized I didn’t add the salt to the mix…..what should I do?
Colleen: In general, it’s pretty hard to get dry ingredients incorporated after the fact this way. Here’s what I’d do, you can probably get away with it early in the batch-life:
Flatten the entire batch of dough on a wet surface, till it’s about 1/2-inch thick. Sprinkle the salt for the whole batch onto the dough, and roll it up, then put back into the bucket or whatever you’re using as a storage container. Let it sit at least 4 hours in the fridge before using.
See what you think… Jeff
My family and I are loving the bread. The daily loaf has now displaced my bread maker. Poor old thing.
Two questions.
1st- May I use a stainless steel bowl with a plastic lid “cracked open?
2nd- If the bread has developed an alcohol smell from being closed too tightly may I still use the dough?
Thank you so much
Tammra:
1st: Yes!
2nd: The alcohol smell boils off in the process of baking and I can’t detect it, don’t throw it away. Jeff
Jeff, your earlier post has been my bible, but there seems to be some variation between the KAF website (and your post) and the packages in the market. The website specifies 12.7% for bread flour and 11.7% for AP. But in the market both packages. were 4gr. per 30 gr. portion (13.3%). The market was in Mass., where I was visiting and saw the KAF Bread for the first time. It is not in the market in NY, where I live. The AP in NY has always been 13.3%.
Galanw: Ah, now we’re getting somewhere, I got into this problem last time round with our books. Package labeling is only required to give the number of grams of protein (per 30-gram serving) in terms of whole number grams. So 4.0, 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4 are all labeled as having “4” grams of protein. This seems like a small error unless you use these numbers to calculate your protein percentage– in that case, it introduces unacceptable “rounding error” into your calculation. It caused me to miscalculate the protein % for KAF AP in the 1st printing of ABin5.
So the only place to get accurate protein percentages for KAF flours is their website, not by calculating on the basis of their label.
Does this help? Jeff
Having never baked a bread in my life I have bought both your books, a pizza paddle and a stone and is now hoping to be able to put fresh bread on the table in our home.
I was hoping to be able to leave work, do the childcare pick up and still have dinner on the table at 5:30 – so I am quite interested in Dan’s approach with leaving the dough in the oven.
“The other issue is that your dough is probably over proofing if you are leaving it at room temperature over night. This means that the gas bubbles have expanded all they can and then start to collapse before it even bakes. If you want to shape the dough and let it sit in the pan overnight to bake in the morning, let it rise in the refrigerator. This is what is called a retarded rise and it allows the yeast to create the gases much slower.”
So the rookie question is this: are we talking about the initial rise? Does it then only count for brand new dough? How long resting time is too long? I want to shape the bread in the morning – program the oven and have the bread ready ~1 hour after stepping in through the door.
Any suggestions?
Thank you,
Heidi
Hi Heidi,
It is certainly worth a try to see what you come up with, but I fear that the dough will have over-proofed by the time the oven preheats and bakes the bread. Another approach is to form the bread in the morning, let it rest on a sheet of parchment, loosely covered in the refrigerator while you are at work. Preheat the oven as soon as you get home and throw the bread in the oven as soon as it comes to temperature. You can easily have bread within an hour of stepping through the door.
Hope that helps! Zoë
Thank you Jeff I appreciate the info.
zoe:
nope, my house is not particularly warm…if anything it’s a bit cool. it doesn’t rise much while it’s resting on the counter either. i live in alexandria, va, which is not a high altitude…it’s right near dc. yes, i meant the gold medal brand flour.
thanks!!
jodi
Hi Jodi,
Does the dough rise up to almost the top of the bucket when you leave it for its first 2 hour rise? If your kitchen in cool you will want to give it some extra time for this first rise. One way to compensate for this is to use warm water, but not so warm as to kill the yeast.
Once you form the loaf and leave it to rise on the counter it will not get much rise at all. You need to allow it to rise until it no longer feels dense and cold. In a cool kitchen this may take up to double the time we suggest in the book.
Allow your baking stone to preheat for 30 minutes, especially if it is a thick one. You may also want to give the Dutch Oven technique a try. https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=552
Hope some of this is helpful!? Zoë
I have a question: First time I have leftover bread (a big buttermilk bread loaf) that’s been around past it’s prime. What’s the best way to store it so I can use it for thanksgiving stuffing next week?
Leslie: That’s kind of a long time, it might get moldy if you don’t freeze it, so that’s what I’d do. Just wrap it will so it doesn’t pick up freezer odors. Jeff
JUST A heads up: links to your archived posts appear to be broken. It goes only to a sort of BUY NOW page with a link to Amazon. Since I just discovered you, I’d love to read your other recipes and comments till my book arrives!
Hope your webmaster can fix this!
Sue: Scroll down, they’re all still there. Click on the links you’ll see down there. Jeff
Jeff- Thanks for the explanation of the packaging labels. So the labels are essentially useless in determining protein content. Incidentally, the KA Whole Wheat is the same 13.3% by the label.
zoe:
no, it doesn’t rise that far. i’m using a 3 or 4 qt tupperware (i’m in a hotel so would have to double check that number at home) and half the recipe. should it really rise that much? that would probalbly be tripling in size on the first rise.
Hi Jodi,
Yes, it should at least double, if not triple in size on the first rise. Are you doing a full batch and it is not rising to the top of the 4qt tupperware?
Zoë
zoe:
no, i’m doing a half batch. that’s why i didn’t think it should wind up at the top…by my calculation, it should probably wind up about 2/3s full?
jodi
Hi Jodi,
That is what I gathered from your description, that is about right for a half batch.
Zoë
Jeff and Zoe-
I love your book and haven’t stopped making bread since I got it about a week ago! One issue I am having is with the dough storage. I made the 100% whole wheat bread and put the rest of the dough in the fridge and within 24 hours it had gone bad. I had it in a plastic container with a lid resting on top, not completely sealed. I also made the deli rye, it has been in the fridge for under 24 hours and smells like it could have turned as well in the same scenario. I am not sure what I could have done wrong. The bread is baking perfectly, but tastes off, like it fermented. Any help would be great. Oh, I have just purchased the container you actually recommend on your site for dough and got the lid as well, do you just rest the lid on it in the fridge? Not “clicking” it into place? Thank you again
Alexis
Alexis: What you’re smelling is the normal development of the by-products of yeast fermentation. That’s what we’re going for in this method. When you say “like it’s fermented,” well, that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Most readers liken the result to that of natural sourdough. It hasn’t gone bad. The only time you need to discard dough is if it develops mold, signalled by dark or light patches, smooth or fuzzy. Dark liquid collecting over the dough is also normal.
If it’s not to your liking, consider drying out the mix slightly, and keeping the dough for fewer days, that will minimize this flavor.
About lids— keep them cracked open, just resting, for the first 48 hours, after that, and after removing some dough, you can usually click them down without a problem. Jeff
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I wanted to report back to you about my whole wheat pastry flour experience. I decided to try a whole wheat and white flour recipe that I’ve had for quite awhile. I’m going thru old recipes, trying to decide what to toss. I had this challah recipe that called for bread flour and either whole wheat flour or whole wheat pastry flour. I figured I’d try the whole wheat pastry flour, to use it up.
The whole thing was soupy, and I kept adding more and more whole wheat pastry flour. That didn’t help much, so I switched to adding bread flour until it was the right consistency.
I think I will avoid using whole wheat pastry flour for bread, just use it for muffins or pastry!!!
Thanks so much for your comments.
Oh, Jeff, I was just watching the video you guys just did. I remember the picture that your dad took of you two recently. I was wondering, does your dad introduce to you to people “My son the doctor?” 🙂
How proud your families must be of both of you!
Judy L, TN
Hi Judy,
Yes, I think that the WW pastry flour is best used for cakes and pastries.
The picture was taken by my father. Jeff and I are not related at all. We are just partners in all things bread. 😉
Thanks, Zoë
zoe:
what do you suggets you try for my next attempt? right now i have a loaf resting…it has been there for an hour and is still cold to the touch, so i figure to let it rest some more…any other ideas?
jodi
Jodi: Even at the end of our 90-minute suggested resting time (for whole grain dough), it’s still going to feel a little cool (though not refrigerator-cold).
Still too dense? Maybe add some vital wheat gluten (I’m assuming that you’re doing the white recipe from the 1st book). To fiddle with the recipes this way, check out https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=142, our post on adding vital wheat gluten. Jeff
A note on Canadian flour. It is much higher in protein than US flour. Poking around on the Internet it seems the Canadian AP flour is about 13% while bread flour is up around 14%.
We use Robin Hood Best For Bread for all of our Bread making, would you suggest 1/4 or 1/2 cup more water for this?
Steve: If you have white flour in the range of 13% protrein (rather than US-style AP which is around 10%), yes, you do need to increase the water slightlly– assuming that the batch is mostly white flour, as in the Master from our first book. Tips on how much extra water are at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=140. Thanks for visiting! Jeff
Can your recipes be adapted for use with fresh cultures?
Ann: I’ve used natural sours in our recipes. You can swap in about 1 1/2 cups of activated starter, and decrease the flour in our batch recipe by 3/4 cup, and the water by 3/4 cup (assuming your activated starter is half water and half flour). You can then decrease the yeast in the recipe, but I wouldn’t drop it to zero, because stored dough gets temperamental if you try this. See our post on decreasing the commercial yeast at https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=85.
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I was so excited to try your Apple-Barley Bread. I have an orchard and dehydrate my own apples and press my own cider. I sent away for the barley flour and barley malt syrup. I’ve made the bread twice and both times, there’s been no sign of yeast activity during the first rise. The second time, I made sure the cider was at 100 degrees, let the dough rise 3 hours instead of 2 and kept it in a warm place. Both times I went ahead with the recipe and the bread tasted good but was REALLY dense. What am I doing wrong? I’ve made 20 breads from your first book and love your master recipe in your new book.
Thanks,
Carol
Hi Carol,
Have you used this batch of yeast for other breads with success? It doesn’t happen often, but once in a blue moon we here about a batch of yeast that just has no rising power. The other question would be the temperature of the room. If it is chilly in your kitchen it may take much longer to rise?
Let me know if you suspect either of these could be playing a part?
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Zoe,
Yes, I’ve used this batch of yeast successfully for several other breads. And because my kitchen IS chilly, I floated my dough bucket in water in the sink (at a temperature of 70-75 degrees).
Could the fact that my cider is unpasteurized have anything to do with the dough not rising?
Carol
I followed the basic recipe twice; the crust is beautiful, but the inside dough does not seem to rise enough & so the taste is not light enough (too gooey). Please advise. Thank you.
Assuming you mean the basic (white) recipe from https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=195, I think you’ll prefer it with a longer resting time. Go at least 60 minutes, but maybe even up to 90 and see what you think. Actually, check your oven temp first, it may simply be that your oven is running hot. Jeff
Your boule dough with the carmelized onions makes a great crunchy roll but for a more traditional Thanksgiving roll I’d like something a bit softer. Do you have a suggestion?
Nina: Basically, to get a softer result, the answer is shortening, any kind you like. Try our more enriched recipes, like challah or brioche, (those two are egg-y) or the buttermilk bread. Brush with even more shortening for an even softer result. Jeff
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I had some deli rye dough left in the bucket today, the 14th day since I made the dough. I felt I had to do something with it today!
I confused about how to “count” the days after making the dough. You say that you can just start a batch of dough with any leftover dough to give it a jump start. So that means I could have just started a new batch of deli rye in the same bucket.
But how do I count the days of the new batch? I’ve already reached the end of the old batch. Does this mean I have up to 14 days on this new batch that contains the old dough?
I ended up baking the bread, because I like variety. I’ll mix up another batch of something else. I don’t think I could have used the deli rye dough for another type of dough, could I?
And does this method of adding more dough to older dough work for enriched doughs? I only have a few days to use up the challah dough.
Finally, can I substitute spelt flour for whole wheat in the new book’s challah recipe? I’d like to try a spelt challah.
Thanks so much. Oh, I didn’t think you two were related. I just got mixed up whose father took the picture.
THANKS,
Judy
Judy: Day “zero” is the day you mixed the dough, whether or not you included any leftover dough to jumpstart sourdough flavor. We don’t generally recommend doing “old” dough methods with egg-enriched dough because eggs don’t keep forever. Could freeze the challah dough.
Personally, I use Deli Rye for all sorts of things (rolls, flatbreads, little muffins) etc., but that’s just a matter of taste.
Re: spelt, yes, go ahead and swap it for WW, works great. Jeff
Jeff, thanks for writing back. But I really would like to know where to get spelt flour. All I seem to see in the store are those tiny bags of Bob’s Red Mill. Gets pretty pricey quickly.
Thanks
Hi Judy,
We can get it in bulk at our co-op, but if that is not an option you may want to check Bob’s Red Mill website for larger bags or King Arthur Flour.
Thanks, Zoë
Jeff,
Thanks for the tip, too, about how you use your deli rye dough. We love that recipe, I never thought of using it for flatbread. I would love the rolls!
Judy
Hi Jeff and Zoe,
I just made your basic brioche dough and turned it into petite brioche (the dough spent about 24 hours in the fridge before being formed.) It was crumbly, rather than having those long, stretchy, challah-like shreds. Did I over-proof? Does it need longer in the fridge to get the gluten to line up? Any tips would be greatly appreciated – thanks!
Hi Beth,
It almost sounds like the dough was a bit too dry. 24 hours is plenty of time for the gluten to do its work. What you may need to do with the dryer dough is work it a bit while forming it and then let it rest a bit longer before baking, be sure not to over bake. If the dough is too dry the gluten will not form without kneading, so by working it a little bit when you shape it you will get those gluten strands to align. But, you need to let it rest longer to give the dough a chance to reform the gas bubbles. Next time you mix up a batch, add a couple more table spoons of water and I think you will have better results.
Hope that helps! Zoë
Heya,
I was wondering if you could provide me some help on my bread – I am on my 4th bread from your book. BUT I am having troubles with the rising. Dough rose well on the counter, and looked good in the fridge, not much (if any) rise on the counter during rest. Now, in the oven it starts to rise, then seems to stop right away leaving me with a bread with a nice crumb in the upper half of the bread and a dense bottom half. Any ideas?
Thanks!!
Hi Heidi,
Which dough are you using? Typically a dough that isn’t rising well in the oven is either too dry or perhaps over proofed? Give me some more details and I can try to help you figure this out!
Thanks, Zoë
Hi Zoe,
I am using the master recipe from book 2, healthy breads. I really don’t think the bread was too dry – the last one I made was the best one and I actually rolled that one out (thereby adding a fair amount of flour) added dried herbs and chopped olives, and then rolled it into a loaf. My initial rise was only 2 hours and the rest time was probably around the same, what do you mean by over proofed? I have not baked before.
Heidi: “Over-proofed” means that a shaped loaf was left to rest for too long on the counter. Those start to collapse back on themselves and you end up with the inconsistent crumb as you’re reporting. Since you’re doing a 2 hour rest, that’s probably the problem. In the book, we specify a 90 minute rest– that was enough for the Master Recipe dough from book 2. Why did you go so long? Jeff
Zoe, Thanks for the tip on spelt flour. I’ll try those sources.
Exciting news! I met a new AB5 baker yesterday on the Yahoo list. She needed a dough bucket. Turned out she only lives 1-2 miles from me! I brought her over an icing bucket that I’m not using, and some master dough I made last night. We shaped and baked her first loaves today from the dough I made last night. We also mixed up another batch of dough for herself, so she could have the “whole start to finish experience.”
It was a lot of fun showing someone how to do their first loaves. She and her hubby will enjoy them tonight. We also have some mutual interests. And we wouldn’t have met without both of us baking the same way and posting on the Yahoo list! You guys are bringing people together! Thanks!
Judy L, TN
Judy– sounds like fun. Never guessed people would meet over bread. Jeff
I am new to your cookbook but have had success in making the master receipe, the deli rye and the peasant bread, however have tried the pumpernickel twice and it is just way to set to shape the dough. I can’t figure out from the receipe if the pumpernickel needs to be a “drier” dough than others in the book. Appreciate any suggestions you might have.
Cheryle: The pumpernickel is a little drier. What do you mean by “way to set,” I’m confused? Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I guess I just didn’t realize it was that specific. Will try a shorter rest span on the next one. Sounds like some people are leaving their shaped loaves in the fridge to rest – how long of a rest should that be then? And does the bread go straight into the oven from the fridge?
Thanks, Heidi
Heidi: The fridge rest: 8 to 12 hours, then out of the fridge while the oven pre-heats. So just a 20 to 30 minute warm-up (it will still be cold). This works quite well. Jeff
Just love the new Health Breads book! I’ve been baking bread for 35 years – the recipes are great. Here’s a comment on your info about spelt. It can be purchased in “white” flour form from Purity Foods (www.purityfoods.com) as Vita Spelt. I find that it works fine for yeasted and non yeasted baked goods. I can tolerate it better than wheat, so it’s a real find!
Chris: Problem though; the “white” versions absorb much less water than typical health-food types of spelt, because of all the bran that gets milled away. Will take much less water… Jeff