Q&A Whole Grain Breads
Q: When I make the 100% whole wheat bread it doesn’t seem to rise as well as the other doughs, am I doing something wrong?
A: The short answer is no! It is nothing you are doing wrong, it is just the nature of whole wheat flour. Because there is so much bran and natural oil in the flour it is impossible to get enough gluten development to achieve a really good rise on the bread.
To get a higher sandwich loaf, we tend to overfill the loaf pan and let it rise for longer. If you go about 3/4 full and allow the dough to rise for about 2 to 2 1/2 hours depending on the size of the pan, you’ll get a taller loaf. The whole wheat loaves in The New Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day will do well with this approach.
Another way to get more rise in the bread is to add “vital wheat gluten” (also known as “vital wheat gluten flour,” to the dough. If you whisk in 1 to 2 teaspoons per cup of dry grain ingredient you will have a much higher, lighter loaf of bread. It also contains vitamin C which helps to improve the dough and make it more elastic. But you’ll need to increase the water in the recipe to adjust for the extra protein; that’s the kind of recipe testing we did for The New Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day.
“Vital wheat gluten” products are available from Bob’s Red Mill and Hodgson Mill. Both products are often in the baking section of typical supermarkets.
Q: My whole wheat loaf doesn’t get a good crisp crust! What can I do?
A: The naturally occurring oils in the flour, plus the added oil in the recipe will prevent this bread from ever getting a really crackly crust. You can bake the bread with steam to help with the crust, but it will eventually get soft again. If you want a bread with a crisp crust you will want to look for recipes with mostly white flour and no added oils.
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Is there any recipe for multigrain bread such as Tyrolean Ten-Grain Torpedo (The Bread Bible) or Mighty Multigrain (Cookwise)? Or could wheat germ, cornmeal, flax seed, etc. be added to the European Peasant bread recipe in place of some of the all-purpose flour?
Marian: You’ve probably noticed that there’s a pattern in our recipes, and how we vary them to include more whole grains. The simplest way to vary our recipes is to keep the non-white flours to about 15-20% of the flour volume; in that case you generally don’t have to use any additional water over the all-white version (3 cups water, 6 1/2 cups AP flour). If you use more than that, you need to add a bit more water. The rule of thumb is that you want it to look as wet as our basic recipe or it won’t store well. The other rule is that the shaped loaves may well need more resting time; try at least an hour.
Look for these kinds of recipes in our next book!
Jeff
Thank you. I will try it.
I have loved French bread since my first trip to France in 1968. I have loved baking my own bread since–oh, maybe 1970. But this time, as my husband says, I have entered a manic phase. I can’t get enough of your bread! This is the closest to REAL French bread I have encountered outside of France. Even the French people I know love it. Started with the article in the Chicago Tribune, and HAD to have the book. I’ve been baking several times a week ever since (that’s a lot since I also run my own business). We love the Za’atar bread, the Boule, the Eastern European Potato-Rye, the Peasant Bread–so far, everything I have tried. Still working on mastering the Pain d’épi. Okay, my question: trying to do more whole-grain breads because my husband is pre-diabetic and he says the one thing he can’t give up is my home-baked bread (which is really yours). In the 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread, what are the function of the honey (does it really need the added sugar?) and the milk (I am lactose intolerant)? You mention tenderizing; will the bread still be good without those two ingredients? And in the Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread, can I use Smart Balance margarine (not the “lite”) instead of butter, and do without the honey? And one more question: what about the so-called “white whole wheat flour”? Advantages, disadvantages, recipe modifications needed? Merci mille fois! ¡Mil gracias¡ Hertzlichen Dank! Oh…and did I mention that I love your bread, your book, and both of you for publishing it?
Hi Ruth,
THANK YOU!!! How very nice of you to share this with us. We are so pleased that you are enjoying the book and all of the bread so much.
Yes, you can use smart balance instead of butter. It also works for the sticky bun recipe, but don’t tell anyone because it will be in the next book!
If you eliminate the honey and milk from the 100% WW recipe you will end up with a drier loaf of bread. The WW flour absorbs much more liquid and tends to be dense, so we add a bit of sweetener and milk to improve the crumb.
If you want to try the dough without the sugar and milk I would recommend adding vital wheat gluten to help the crumb.
The white whole wheat is just a different type of wheat. Instead of the typical red wheat it is white. It has all the nutritional value of the other, but is lighter in color and taste. You can substitute any of the Whole wheat with white whole wheat.
Enjoy! Zoë
Thank you so much! I’ll try these. I’ll report back! –Ruth
Can you also just substitute part white whole wheat into the regular master recipe? If so, adjust the water? (The only one I know of right now is the KA, I think.)
Linda: Have a look above; yes you can. In our book, we have a whole wheat recipe that substitutes 1 cup whole wheat for 1 cup of AP flour. If you push it beyond that you need to increase the water or it won’t store well. If you go 50/50 whole wheat/AP, you’ll need to increase the water by 1/4 cup; or depending on your flour, even 1/2 cup.
White whole wheat works just as well as regular whole wheat. Jeff
I used 4 cups of coarsely ground whole wheat bread flour and 2.5 cups of high gluten flour. It worked very well. I added more water to get the dough to the right consistancy. I’m amazed at the gluten development that I got.
I live in Rochester NY and we’re lucky to have a very good bulk store (Tadco) that has specialty flours like pumpernickel. I’ll be trying that next.
I made this from the master recipe in the local paper and watching the video in your links. I’ve got a lot of experience baking bread and this is certainly the easiest technique I’ve ever used.
The steam helps the crust tremendously. Just seeing how that was done in the video really helped. It made the difference between a good crust and a great crust.
I want to see how the dough changes as it ages. Having dough on hand gives you a lot of last minute options.
I believe that someone will be getting me the book for my birthday…
Hi Greg,
I hope your birthday wish comes true!
Thanks for playing with recipes. Once you figure out the hydration it is fun to play with whole grains.
Enjoy and Happy Birthday (when it comes!)
Zoë
Hi! I have a question about cooking the 100% whole wheat loaf. If I let it rise in the loaf pan all day in the refrigerator, should I still bake it at 350 for ~1 hour? Seems like you’re having success cooking the master recipe refrigerator risen dough at 475 instead of 450….do you think the whole wheat loaf would also respond better to a higher temp?? Advice appreciated. And many many thanks for helping bring fresh bread into my weekly routine – it’s a wonderful habit.
Jodie
Hi Jodie,
I think I would preheat the oven just a little bit hotter than normal (375 degrees) and then drop the temperature when the loaf goes in. The reason we bake those breads at a lower temperature is because of the addition of sugar and dairy. You don’t want it to burn, but I think the cold dough needs a bit of a lift in the beginning.
Good luck and I’m so glad you are enjoying the book!
Zoë
With an infant and a toddler I barely have time to take a shower, but I do have time to bake bread because of this book! I would be over the moon if you wrote another book using gains like millet and quinoa. Thanks for your book!
Our next book is in the works, and it will focus on whole grains and other health-oriented options.
So thanks, about that moon thing.
Jeff
I just made my first set of 100% whole wheat. It tastes wonderful, but it didn’t rise like I would like. I’ll use vital wheat gluten the next time. It made amazing naan though! We wrapped the naan around hot dogs for a bun substitute. My 5 year old thought it was cool! I usually make whole wheat bread with a recipe from Laurel’s Kitchen Bread Book. It’s her buttermilk bread. Do you think I could substitute buttermilk and melted butter for the milk and oil in this recipe? If I could get even close to that texture without the work, I would be so happy.
Thanks for an amazing book. I’m a bread baker, but you are changing how I bake bread. I won’t stop making sourdough, but everything else is fair game! I’ve already turned 2 of my non-baking friends onto your book. They are also excited. I look forward to more books to come!
Hi Kasi,
I think the buttermilk and melted butter will work. The dough will be stiffer to work with. It sounds like it is well worth trying!
Thanks! Zoë
The recipe for Bran-Enriched White Bread on page 72 lists the cornstarch wash in the ingredient list. However the instructions don’t say anything about using it. Is this a misprint or should we brush the wash on just before baking?
Thanks in advance!
Patti
Thanks for catching the mistake Patti. We basically gave you a recipe for both a glazed loaf (with cornstarch wash) and a flour-dusted loaf! Sorry about that. If you want something shiny, omit the flour-dusting and paint with cornstarch wash just before slashing (the slippery cornstarch will prevent the knife from catching). If you want a flour-dusted loaf, drop the cornstarch wash and dust the top with white flour just before slashing. Nothing else needs to change. Jeff
Can you substitute Oat Bran for Wheat Bran in the bran enriched bread?
Hi Mary,
Yes, you can substitute oat bran for the wheat bran.
Enjoy! Zoë
In the Master Recipe, I use 4C white flour and 2 1/2C whole wheat flour. I did not know to increase the amount of water. I divide the dough in half for 2 breads. I follow all the other instructions, but I need to bake the bread for about 50 minutes. Even with that increased baking time, the bread is still a little damp in the middle. Is there an adjustment I should make?
Hi B,
Yes, you will want to increase the resting time before baking. You are doubling the size of the loaf and so you need to let it rest for about 1 1/2 hours or the middle of the loaf will be dense. We always recommend that whole wheat breads rise longer anyway because they tend to be denser.
Try that and see if you have better results. Let me know!
Thanks, Zoë
I just recently found your site through google while looking for whole wheat bread recipe. I then googled where to find your book in the UK and did read a lot of good reviews on the internet and it’s fascinating to know that a lot of people are now converted into your unorthodox way of making bread. It piqued my curiosity to then try your basic recipe by using 3.5 cups of all purpose flour and 3 cups whole wheat – added 3/4 cups of water. Kept the dough in the fridge for almost 2 days and divided them into two, baked for 30 minutes without the pizza stone which I don’t have. And I must tell you that it was a great success! It’s just like the bread we get from the Saturday Farmer’s Market in our area. My husband loved it as much as I did. I ordered your book and can’t wait to try all the recipes on it as I venture into making homemade bread. After reading all the Q & A above, I am faced with the challenge of finding ‘vital wheat gluten’ and other kinds of flour to make the 100% whole wheat bread (hubby and I only eat whole wheat bread). As am new into this thing, I have to find places in London (UK) to get these ingredients. May be one of your UK readers (am sure there’s a lot of them) can help me on this. Now my question is, how long does the whole wheat bread stay good if you keep it sealed in a ziplock bag?
Hello Mrs Smith: So glad to hear that you’re able to get success with the method, there’s always a bit of a transition because of our silly non-metric US volume units, and the fact that most non-bread flours in Britain tend to be a little lower in protein than US all-purpose.
Your whole-wheat adaptation is about what I do when I want to go high on the whole grain, so that sounds great. As for vital wheat gluten, are they importing Bob’s Red Mill products to the UK? That’s the default option in the US, and I’m not sure what else you might be seeing over there. Please let me know if you find VWG in the UK.
As for the ziplock bag– well, I try to make the bread in small enough quantities, and often enough so that I don’t need to store it. For overnight storage, I prefer to store it cut-side down, on a non-porous surface, but exposed to the air. That seems to preserve the crust character. The plastic bag will delay staling for about a day, but the crust will go soft. It’s a trade-off.
Jeff
Jeff, thanks for the reply. Greatly apreciate it! Today I have baked the other half of dough I made five days ago and it turned out really excellent. As am new into bread making this is quite an achievement for me! 🙂 Very easy to make and will definitely stick to your basic recipe and will go through and try every recipe in your book. Can’t wait to get the books from Amazon and apparently they’re shipped from the states and not from the UK. I ordered 12 of them as gifts to friends. You guys should come to the UK to promote your book. Am not sure if you did a book tour in Europe but it might be worth considering if you guys haven’t done it yet.
I need to find out if Bob’s Red Mill products are available in the UK. Will leave a comment for your UK readers once I get any information.
Hmm. I think I need to show your post to our publisher! A London trip, what a great idea. No, we’ve not yet been to Europe to promote the book.
We’ve promoted our book in the US as a first step, with trips to Atlanta and Phoenix first, and then upcoming dates in Chicago, Seattle, and San Francisco. Plus lots of activity in our home town (Minneapolis). For both of us, it’s been one of the more unusual and entertaining projects we’ve ever done. Check out our Events page to see where we’ll be, and when (https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?page_id=3).
Good luck with your VWG search. Jeff
Just found out today that Bob’s Red Mill products are not available in the UK. For your UK readers, I did found an online shop that carry a variety of flour from Canada & US but just like everything else, they’re expensive. So yes I finally found vital wheat gluten but they call it ‘gluten flour’ here and don’t ask me why. 🙂 I ordered some already. Here’s the link : https://www.flourbin.com
I friend told me that WholeFoods carry a few specialty flour as well and I’ve got to check it out tomorrow. Meanwhile, am getting really impatient waiting for my books to get into the country. Am wondering why they aren’t readily available in the UK bookshops. Can’t wait to try out your recipes!
My guess is that Amazon is the easiest option, hopefully that will work out soon. Thanks for the update on the VWG in Britain. Jeff
If I am grinding my own wheat, can I use fresh ground soft white pastry wheat in place of the all purpose flour? I would usually use this in place of all purpose flour in other recipes, but I don’t know if it has the right protein/gluten content to replace it in your bread recipe. If not, do you know of another grain that would work? Thank you!!
After I posted my question above, I got to the whole wheat recipe in your book which says to avoid the whole wheat pastry flour. I still would like to know if you’ve found another grain that could be ground at home that would work in your recipes that use all purpose flour. I have nothing against all purpose flour, I just love freshly ground flour!! I assume I could use freshly ground red wheat–the normal whole wheat bread grain in the whole wheat recipe. Again, thanks for your input!!
Rachel: You definitely can grind your own wheat. If it’s rougher-ground than commercial, you may end up with a slightly rougher, more rustic result, but it will be fantastic.
As you say, we’ve found that pastry flour is a little too low in protein (compared with AP). That said, you could probably use it, but you’ll need to decrease the water in the recipe until it looks like the consistency in Zoe’s picture here: https://artisanbreadinfive.com/?p=121#more-121
Red wheat: I’m assuming that is a bread flour (higher in protein than AP)? If so, you probably need to increase the water slightly (try a quarter-cup at a time), again aiming for the consistency in the picture.
How does freshly-ground flour compare in taste with pre-ground stuff? Jeff
I have just made my first batch of 100% whole wheat dough from your book, and the dough consistency before rising is very different from the other breads I have made. It is more like a stiff cookie dough. Should I be adjusting the water now before rising – or wait until the rise is done – or is this the consistency I should expect with the 100% whole wheat? I used Dakota Maid Stone Ground Whole Wheat flour, “High Protein Spring Wheat”. Also, how long can I let this dough rise at room temp before refrigeration – any longer than 5 hours?
Di: The consistency is definitely different and that’s normal, try it before you start adjusting water. Let us know how the first loaves come out.
Five hours is a good usual max, but we’ve found that letting it go overnight doesn’t change the lasting power of the batch all that much. Jeff
Jeff, thanks for the late night reply! I guess baking addicts are all ‘night owls!’ 😉
I guess I’ll let it rise all night and bake it tomorrow morning early. Wish me luck! Thanks again for the help.
Your welcome. By the way, it’s only 10:34 PM right here (Minneapolis time). What time zone/city are you in?
I am in Minneapolis too! I often get inspired to bake at night–but it always surprises my friends; most are intimidated by bread anyway and wouldn’t think of starting any on a Sunday night! Your book has been so much fun–and you guys are so accessible for questions! Many thanks!
Your welcome!
I just posted my finished whole wheat bread photo on my blog. Do you think the appearance is right? I baked it 50 minutes or so and did put the bare loaf back on the stone for 5 more minutes since the bottom seemed soft although firm. It doesn’t crumble when I cut it but I don’t know how it will do in a sandwich, which is how I hoped to use it. The photo isn’t too good for the crumb, I know…
I’d love your opinion on it since I don’t know how it should look!
Di: That’s pretty much our result as well. Our first book has a lot of compromises, and we knew that the result of a 100% WW loaf was going to be “cakey” unless we added vital wheat gluten. We opted not to, in order to keep the recipes as simple as possible for beginning bakers. One less odd ingredient to stock in the house.
But if you want a more open texture, and one that’s less cakey, you can add vital wheat gluten to the mixing water before the flours (stir with a fork to prevent lumps). The package will say something like “use 1/2 to 2 teaspoons per cup of flour” to increase the gluten content of your finished dough. Experiment with the level you like, and remember that gluten absorbs water so you may need a little more as you increase the gluten.
Our second book will focus on whole grains and we are using lots of vital wheat gluten. Jeff
I have a question about the way my dough is smelling. I just mixed up a fresh batch last night and it already smells very sour; almost beer-like. The bread tastes fine, but I was wondering if the smell was normal. I do use more whole grains than the recipe calls for, so I wasn’t sure if that might be the cause.
Thank you for your wonderful book! We’ve been enjoying fresh bread almost every day for the past three weeks!
Hi Naomi,
That is just the natural smell of the fermentation. Many people find this desirable in the bread. It gives it more character than most breads you find in the store. However if you find it is “souring” too much for your taste then you can freeze the dough and that will cease the further fermentation.
Enjoy!
Thanks, Zoë
I have one complaint. There isn’t enough time in my day to read all the Q&A and write them in my book. When you do your next book, perhaps you can mention all the new/different ideas submitted here on your site. Thanks.
Hi Sheila,
We have learned so much from listening to the feedback on this website and that will definitely be reflected in the new book.
Thanks, Zoë
Jeff–Will the new book have recipes for those who follow a low glycemic diet? Thanks so much! By the way, I really appreciate how you dialogue with your readers–you’re a wonderful and generous teacher and equipper.
Kati: We’re currently struggling with just how “medicalized” this book will be. I’m leaning against giving calorie counts, carbohydrate exchanges… it will take a lot of the fun out of the book, and actually will be impractical given the limitations of our publisher and the resources allocated to our second book.
What we will say in the book is that ADA recommends whole grains, so does American Heart for the same reason– it looks like whole grains have a lower glycemic index than a similar amount of food made with white flours. But you’ll have to calculate your carbohydrate exchanges on your own (won’t be hard). To the extent that a diabetic can replace a pure carb source (like white flour) with a mixture of whole grains, fruit, and vegetables, we can expect that they will have an easier time with glycemic control. Modest, but measurable. Jeff
Thanks for the reply! I agree with your philosophy about not getting too “medicalized” with the books and I really value the spirit of joy, creativity, camaraderie, and community that characterizes your book, your comments, and, hopefully, our lives as we bake and break bread with one another.
At a time when many folks, including myself, are eating more complex carbs with a lower glycemic index, higher protein breads such as Ezekiel 4:9, more olive oil in place of butter, fewer simple sugars, and, for many, less bread than in the past, your second book, with its emphasis on whole grains and other health-oriented options, will be wonderful and convenient to use and share with others, even as the current recipes and techniques are adaptable and already include healthy options.
May the celebration continue!
Question about the Oatmeal Bread in your book (page 94).
I dearly love the flavor of this bread, but I can never get it to rise and keep its rise. I do make it in a bread pan, but whenever it begins to bake it falls down somewhat — not completely, but it usually goes down enough that the final loaf comes out short and dense. It does not affect flavor, but I would like it to keep its rise, so I can pop the slices in the toaster.
I have tried using smaller/narrower loaf pans and I tried using more dough, but it still falls short. I thought maybe the dough was too wet, but I don’t think that the problem. I’ve made most of the other breads with great success! I even tried using brown sugar instead of the maple syrup. No go. I haven’t changed any of the other ingredients.
It seems to fall in those first few minutes during the intense steaming stage (i.e. when you add the water to the broiler pan). Is it okay to omit this stage? I’ve never really been sure if this steaming stage is necessary for this breadmaking method or if it’s to give a the bread a nice crusty crust. I don’t really need a hard crust on this one, I want it for toast. 🙂
Your input would be greatly appreciated!
Patti
Hi Patti,
It just so happens that I baked this bread this afternoon in my class. Let me ask you a couple of questions and then we can figure out what is going on.
1. are you baking at high altitude?
2. How long are you letting the dough rise before you bake it?
3 what kind of flour are you using and how do you measure it?
Let me know and I bet we can fix your bread. This is a tasty loaf and it shouldn’t be flat or dense so don’t give up!
Thanks, Zoë
Wow, that was a quick reply!
–Hudson Cream unbleached all-purpose
–Hodgson Mill oat bran
–Bob’s Red Mill wheat bran
–King Arthur whole wheat flour
–old-fashioned oats
–Red Star bread machine/instant yeast
Hudson Cream is what I have been using in most of these recipes. I have a little King Arthur Bread Flour on hand I could try, but I can’t get it locally.
I made the Oatmeal Bread just two days ago and made a half recipe. Used all of the dough in a narrower long loaf pan (10″ x 4 1/2″). It filled the pan maybe about two-thirds. I let it rest/rise about 1 hour and 30 minutes. The kitchen was cool so I set the pan on the stove with the oven set on warm. The dough was just risen above the top of the pan…it looked so beautiful! Then it fell slightly in the first 15 minutes of baking.
This is the first time I’ve used this longer loaf pan. It’s made by NordicWare and is a pefect toaster-loaf size.
Patti
Forgot to answer about the altitude. I live in the Eastern mountains of WV, and although we have beautiful mountains, it’s not considered high altitude!
Patti